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UpstatePiper
26-03-07, 05:54 PM
One of the tunes in my "to learn" bin is in 9/8 time. It has several spots where notes that are tied across the main (dotted quarter) beat. I've been trying to get this sorted out, and came up with the following, which seems to help me a lot.

I set the metronome at a slow tempo. Maybe 50 or 60. Then I play a series of g,d, e gracenotes (on low A), with the g's being on the beat, and the d and e equally subdividing it. After I do that for a few seconds, I can play the rhythms correctly. Unfortunately, the effect is short lived, so I stop and do it again.

Hopefully before too long being able to play these compound rhythms will become automatic for me, the same way that playing 1/8 notes in a 4/4 already is.

Werepiper
27-03-07, 02:38 PM
It's like everything else, just keep practising those akward little bits till you have them bang on and it will all come together. The time will come when you will think what was the problem - I'm still waiting for that :rotf:

UpstatePiper
28-03-07, 07:22 PM
I've continued practicing the tune, and in just a few days my playing of these tied notes has improved a lot. I think those g-d-e exerceises have helped in learning how to place the "in-between" notes.

PowerBoozer007
28-03-07, 07:48 PM
IN music, understanding the timing is everything!

Sounds like you are trying to play a 9/8 jig, it will make no sense if the tempo is set too slow.

What's the name of the tune?

UpstatePiper
28-03-07, 09:40 PM
IN music, understanding the timing is everything!

Sounds like you are trying to play a 9/8 jig, it will make no sense if the tempo is set too slow.

What's the name of the tune?

It's a march: Fond Fairwell to Salisbury Plain. Eventually I need to get the tempo up to around 80, but for now 60 is about as quick as I can play it cleanly.

Stormy
28-03-07, 10:54 PM
It's a march: Fond Fairwell to Salisbury Plain. Eventually I need to get the tempo up to around 80, but for now 60 is about as quick as I can play it cleanly.

No matter the time signature, if you are having problems with a particular tune, or phrase within that tune, then try and relate this to a tune that you already play which has the same time signature.
This could be a bit difficult if you are attempting a 9/8 for the first time, you have no previous learning experience to fall back on!! If I am learning a new reel (for example) I will revert back to reels I know. Slow it down then go into the new reel. Eventually his will help you appreciate how the reel sould sound. Remember that some reels are better played "dot-cut", some "round" and some are able to be played in both styles. Marches can be the same to a lesser extent.

PB007 suggests that the tempo you are learning at may be too slow. My personal opinion would be that when learning a new tune the tempo you learn at can never be too slow.

Hope I've exlained what I mean clearly enough, sorry if I have not done so.

PowerBoozer007
28-03-07, 11:12 PM
I wuz tinking dat a slip jig at fiftee wud be too slow da heer it!

Stormy
28-03-07, 11:33 PM
I wuz tinking dat a slip jig at fiftee wud be too slow da heer it!

Agreed to an extent.
However if you slow it down - real slow - and get the finger work, then as has been said before the tempo will come with practice.
I'm trying to say that using a tune you already know can help get the "feel" of a new tune with the same time signature.
The difficulty arises when a beginner does not have previous knowledge of a 9/8 time sig as appears to be the case here. Unfortunately NO forum can help with words alone.

LJMZK
29-03-07, 03:27 AM
When I was having problems learning to play a duck in peter in the wolf i couldn't quite grasp it until i listened to the actual music a few times. I actually dont even read the music though it is there..... i just know the rhythem well enough that i feel comfortable not to worry about it. Another trick is when you are coming up on that part not to think about how you are going to screw it up, but instead try to think about how you are going to get it right.

UpstatePiper
29-03-07, 04:29 PM
The first measure of this tune has a quarter note into a taorluath on an 1/8 note into a doubling on an dotted quarter tied to a quarter note and a final 1/8 note.

I have three problems with this measure -- two are musical and one is execution.

The musical problems are a) learning to play a taorluath on a note 2/3 of the way through the beat, and b) learning how long to play a dotted quarter tied to a quarter (which ends 2/3 of the way through a beat. My execution problem is playing a taorluath quickly enough to make it happen on an 1/8 note at a metronome setting of a dotted quarter = 80.

Playing the g-d-e gracenotes in time the way I described really helps me with the musical issues. The slow metronome setting is to accomodate my taorluath, which I could probably handle OK at speed, if it weren't followed by a doubling.

Bob

Stormy
29-03-07, 06:37 PM
The first measure of this tune has a quarter note into a taorluath on an 1/8 note into a doubling on an dotted quarter tied to a quarter note and a final 1/8 note.

I have three problems with this measure -- two are musical and one is execution.

The problem is neither musical nor technical, the problem is really that you don't know what to do??? That problem can be fixed even over the forums.

The musical problems are a) learning to play a taorluath on a note 2/3 of the way through the beat, and b) learning how long to play a dotted quarter tied to a quarter (which ends 2/3 of the way through a beat. My execution problem is playing a taorluath quickly enough to make it happen on an 1/8 note at a metronome setting of a dotted quarter = 80.
Playing the g-d-e gracenotes in time the way I described really helps me with the musical issues. The slow metronome setting is to accomodate my taorluath, which I could probably handle OK at speed, if it weren't followed by a doubling.

I admit to being a bit lost here (only because I cannot be arsed working out what notes you mean), I use the note names rather than fractions.

Send me a copy of the tune and I will try and help.

UpstatePiper
29-03-07, 07:38 PM
Here's the measure that's tricky for me:

PowerBoozer007
30-03-07, 04:55 PM
Do you have any problems just playing a B-doubling from Lo-A?

UpstatePiper
30-03-07, 05:40 PM
I can do a b-doubling from low-a without difficulty.

I've actually started to get pretty decent with this tune since my first post. I just need to work on upping the tempo and keeping the execution clean. That, and learning the 2nd half...

I like Stormy's idea of learning rhythms in new tunes by comparing them to other tunes I know. In the future, I'll have this one covered. I just realized that this is the first tune I've learned that has a taorluath into a doubling.

PowerBoozer007
30-03-07, 07:31 PM
I just realized that this is the first tune I've learned that has a taorluath into a doubling.

Strathspeys are loaded with that combo!

Stormy
31-03-07, 07:49 PM
I can do a b-doubling from low-a without difficulty.

......after which you just need to hold onto the B until the next beat.
Hope you are managing with this now.

UpstatePiper
01-04-07, 11:19 PM
At my lesson my instructor seemed to think things were coming along well.

I just need to learn the rest of the tune now.

:bagpipe: