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View Full Version : ross canister bag... yay or nay?


stuartFSPB
30-04-07, 02:38 AM
i use a ross canister system and i love it to death. i also know many people who have used one and dislike it or are not looking forward to trying it. any opinions if you have one or are looking in to getting one?

An claidheamh soluis
30-04-07, 10:14 AM
I've used one for the best part of 10 years and wouldn't change to something else in a hurry.

So put me down as a yay

A. Shack
30-04-07, 01:01 PM
Use it, Love it.

I vote yay. :bgt:

Scarlet O'Hair
30-04-07, 02:33 PM
I had one for a long time. I kept running into problems with split hoses (or pierced hoses) and didn't like the "box" shape of the unit. I found it difficult to put in and take out of the bag.

But as far as moisture control and overall steadier blowing, it was certainly a plus. It also lends itself to a variety of drone valve options from homemade (loved them, thanks Ringo) to all sorts of more fandangled ones.

Did that help? :bg:

Bobby
30-04-07, 02:51 PM
Those that love them, love them. Those that hate them, hate them. Most of the population falls right in the middle for various reasons. The canister system is very effective at controlling moisture. Possibly the most effective system. Not everyone needs extreme levels of moisture control.

I've used one briefly. Could not say I had a problem with it. I did not use or need the chanter hose. Most of the concerns that have been expressed to me over the years were about failing/cracking hoses, the sharp edges of the canister scratching up the inside of the pipe bag, and difficulty using it in very small pipe bags.

Personally, I now use an L&M Scotian bag with an MCS2 moisture control system designed by Bruce Hitchings. Works just great for me with none of the issues mentioned above.

redneck
30-04-07, 06:17 PM
Never liked 'em, until I joined Drumlough.............superb. Soon as the inital trial and error period of getting used to the new shape ect, I'd say it's a yay fer me too. The only other sympathetic bag I'd any encounter with was the Bannatyne (sp) pure crap.

The only other bag I'd change the Ross for would be back to the hide / sheepskin ( sorry Dai ) :tommy: :Ceith: :Ceith: :Ceith:

A. Shack
30-04-07, 08:31 PM
I used to play a Bannatyne hybrid bag. I never realized until I switched to the Ross, just how much I disliked the Bannatyne. The exceedingly stiff rubber collars gave next to no positioning options, particularly on the blowpipe stock. The neck shape wasn't particularly friendly either, it always seemed to be fighting me to lurch forward.

For me, the Ross is extremely comfortable to play, rock solid and airtight. The neck shape enables the chanter to "hang" down perfectly in front for me, which has led to a substanially more relaxed grip (and that can only do good things).

About my only gripe comes if the cannister isn't hanging quite right, I get a reminder poke in the rib cage.

wjjagfan
30-04-07, 10:57 PM
I really like mine. I was amazed that a zipper could be airtight like that, but it's works fine and I test it for leaks fairly often.

At first I didn't have any tubing to the chanter, but the dry air and the elevation here in Utah combine to mess with the chanter reed. The band started to use a damp sea sponge in the chanter slot of the cannister and it seems to help kept the tone.

Really no complaints.

SancheA
30-04-07, 11:29 PM
I must vote nay...since im a drummer and all.

pipingconnections
30-04-07, 11:58 PM
Used a ross system for the past 5-6 years went through numerous hoses and rubber bands, Suffered the chanter chokes if i didnt hoover it out regularly, Suffered the loose joints. So have moved away this year (well this week to be exact) and so far deff do not miss it so i must be a
Ex yay now a Nay or really a yaynay !!!
Also i have this niggling thing that the powder from the crushed granules surely cannot be good for you! any budding scientists or chemists out there done any tests ??

stuartFSPB
01-05-07, 01:53 AM
the granules being harmful? im not sure about that, its basically common kitty litter, actually know someone who went and bought standard kitty litter and put it in the canister, didnt harm him. Doesnt harm cats...

Scarlet O'Hair
01-05-07, 02:05 AM
I had forgotten to mention the powder. Even though I regularly dried and sort of "sifted" my litter back into the cannister, the dust was always in my bag, hanging off of my drone reeds (tongues) etc. Defo something I did NOT like!

Wonder if there's any way to get around that?

pipingconnections
01-05-07, 10:09 AM
the granules being harmful? im not sure about that, its basically common kitty litter, actually know someone who went and bought standard kitty litter and put it in the canister, didnt harm him. Doesnt harm cats...
Well as i have yet to see any cats (of the moggy variety) playing pipes and I am not using the kitty litter to pee on i will still go with I dont want to breath in stoor of "Common Kitty Litter" whatever that may be !!

pipingconnections
01-05-07, 10:11 AM
I had forgotten to mention the powder. Even though I regularly dried and sort of "sifted" my litter back into the cannister, the dust was always in my bag, hanging off of my drone reeds (tongues) etc. Defo something I did NOT like!

Wonder if there's any way to get around that?

Know some guys who have replaced the "Kitty Litter" with gel pellets to good effect.

phyx
01-05-07, 11:09 AM
I had forgotten to mention the powder. Even though I regularly dried and sort of "sifted" my litter back into the cannister, the dust was always in my bag, hanging off of my drone reeds (tongues) etc. Defo something I did NOT like!

Wonder if there's any way to get around that?


Aye...play a hide bag without all the guts. :bgt:

Bobby
01-05-07, 01:30 PM
In case anyone would like to try an alternative to the canister type, you should give this a try. Just ask me if you have questions about them.

http://www.highlandreeds.com/acatalog/dronestock_front.jpg (http://www.highlandreeds.com/acatalog/Moisture_Control_System.html)

Scarlet O'Hair
01-05-07, 04:49 PM
Aye...play a hide bag without all the guts. :bgt:


Oh thanks there "Captain Obvious" :bg:

Bobby I have that set up and just recently have been finding it restrictive as far as airflow. (I think it always has been but I just noticed one day...*don't ask* ) I've taken some of the granules out, and still find it so. My plan is to play around with the holes in the end of each tube and see if I can open them up a bit. And yes, I've got the valves set for as easy as they can be. I even tried just the straight tubes with no valves and have narrowed it down to the tubes.

Bobby
01-05-07, 05:14 PM
Strange. I've not experienced any reduction in air pressure. I don;t use valves, but a number of band members do and have not noticed any reduction. Is yours the yellow or black version? Be careful not to enlarge them too much, or the silica gel granules could pass through and that would not be a good thing. The granules are not uniform in size. You could try removing some of the granules as you mentioned. have you ruled out any leaks or drone reeds taking more air than normal? You miay also want to empty the granules out onto a paper towel on a plate to rule out any clumping together. Let me know what you find out.

Scarlet O'Hair
01-05-07, 05:40 PM
Done all that!

I have the yellow set. Think I bought them from you.

The pipes play easily with no tubes at all, save for a hose off the chanter to pull moisture (no tube at the end, just the open connector) I use the valve only in the bass drone as it can "run on" a bit at times.

I will dink around and let you know what I come up with. There has to be a happy medium in there somewhere for me!

redneck
01-05-07, 07:15 PM
I must vote nay...since im a drummer and all.

Yer a cabbage son..........:rc: :rc: :rc: :gah: ...Robbie has already used that line.:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :tommy:

Scotty_Ballylough
01-05-07, 07:22 PM
Nay i feckin hate it!

UpstatePiper
02-05-07, 06:24 PM
In case anyone would like to try an alternative to the canister type, you should give this a try. Just ask me if you have questions about them.

http://www.highlandreeds.com/acatalog/dronestock_front.jpg (http://www.highlandreeds.com/acatalog/Moisture_Control_System.html)

Out of curiosity, how do those cups attach to the stocks?

Another alternative is the one Kinnarid has:

http://www.kinnairdbagpipes.com/imagethumb.php?s=product_image/Kannister_White3.jpg (http://www.kinnairdbagpipes.com/Kinnaird-Products-5729/Kinnaird-Kanister-Moisture-Control.html)

It plugs into the blowpipe stock. I have one and it seems to work well for me, but I don't have anything to compare it to (other than the bottle-type trap, which just wasn't sufficient).

Bobby
02-05-07, 06:43 PM
Yes they do. They're a flexible rubber cup that the MCS slips into. Install them before putting the stock int he bag, and then push the stock firmly into place thereby locking the rubber cup against the inside wall of the bag and it holds it in place extremely well. If you don't want to do that, you can always wrap waxed hemp or synthetic material around the connector end and insert it into the bottom to the stock. either way works fine, but the rubber cup gives less opportunity to slip out of the stock, or break accidentally putting them away and forgetting to take them out.

I've seen the kinnaird one, but would rather not have anything impede airflow into the bag, and would rather affect air going to the drones. My preference.

redneck
03-05-07, 08:15 PM
Nay i feckin hate it!

Not much about yer pipes ya like is there...?:notlistening: :notlistening: :notlistening: :tommy:

Scotty_Ballylough
08-05-07, 01:11 PM
I just dont like the ross canisters and the omega drone reeds!

Terrance
09-05-07, 03:25 PM
.... It also lends itself to a variety of drone valve options from homemade (loved them, thanks Ringo) to all sorts of more fandangled ones.

:bg:

Hi Scarlet,

I haven't used drone valves, what do they do for you? What's the benefit to having them?

Terrance

Werepiper
09-05-07, 04:11 PM
Yay - I like my Ross system

Scarlet O'Hair
09-05-07, 07:32 PM
Hi Scarlet,

I haven't used drone valves, what do they do for you? What's the benefit to having them?

Terrance

What can happen with synthetic bags with or without moisture systems is there can be a drone squeel on start up, or difficulty cutting off. I learned to start up and cut off without any trouble with just the synthetic bag, but once I put in the Ross, I noticed difficulties as mentioned above.

I tried a variety of products (I LOVE to try new gadgets) and found that with my Ross System, the best drone valve for me was wee disks made of tire tubes and elastic thread. I believe you can see an example of this set up at www.thebagpipeplace.com

The valves will snap shut, creating a clean cut off, and will aid in being rid of any start up squeel.

I don't use valves the Ross system right now, and there are no valves on my tenor drones of any sort. I keep one on my bass, as the current bass reed seems to perform best with it.

Some bands will INSIST on ross (or other types of moisture control) and valves to go with.

Hope that helped, and I basically just sited what worked for me after tons of trial and error and research!

Terrance
09-05-07, 08:02 PM
...
Hope that helped, and I basically just sited what worked for me after tons of trial and error and research!

Yes, that was a great help. I appreciate it! :flowers:

Piper Mac
10-05-07, 03:57 AM
Like the Ross----Yay

scarhandpiper
04-06-07, 08:05 PM
So if someone was to have -- say, NOT a Ross bag -- and no moisture control and no drone control, basically, but that someone wanted to have both at a minimum cost (that is to say, without buying a Ross bag), what would be a good way to do that? Any ideas?

Bobby
04-06-07, 08:15 PM
My suggestions:

If you have a zipper bag:

1. the MCS2 by Bruce Hitchings (it includes removeable and adjustable drone valves if you need them)
2. get the ross components and use them in your zipper bag & if you need valves include a set of In-line drone valves


If you don't have zipper bag

......season and maintain your bag well whatever it is, and use a split-stock tube trap if more moisture control is needed.

SDowns
04-06-07, 09:38 PM
I used a Ross....clamp bag and then went to a zippered. I thought it pretty cool at the time. The only issue I had was the separation of a hose.

I play a Gannaway now and can't ever see me going back to a Ross bag with the canister. The Gannaway does what it's supposed to do and I have not any issues with "moisture".

Let me say though, I can see the value of the Ross in a competition band setting...especially with some drone valves.


Oh - I guess that would make me a "Nay" but only for personal reasons as they relate to my piping right now.

Scarlet O'Hair
04-06-07, 11:13 PM
If you don't have zipper bag

......season and maintain your bag well whatever it is, and use a split-stock tube trap if more moisture control is needed.


I had one of these for a while, it was a Peter Crysler....I liked it lots.

What split stock means is that the blowstock is made out of two pieces, mine had a couple of o rings. One is tied into the bag, but the top part comes apart from it and is attached to the tube that collects the water in your bag.

Jamesinator
05-06-07, 03:42 AM
one of the best inventions ever. You have to do alot of experimenting. I have set it up to a point, where I can keep my whole bagpipe stable for several hours of playing. Which is awesome to be used in bands.

scarhandpiper
14-06-07, 07:18 PM
I got some K-valves and installed them.
What a big sigh of relief! After months of working on my cut-offs and having them not work, I finally can cut off smartly at the end of a tune!!!!

Piper of Rose
14-06-07, 07:46 PM
Bag yea

Canister ney

Although my next bag will be a hybred.

Scottie100270
14-06-07, 09:13 PM
I got some K-valves and installed them.
What a big sigh of relief! After months of working on my cut-offs and having them not work, I finally can cut off smartly at the end of a tune!!!!

do you have a web site available for these?

Piper Mac
14-06-07, 11:11 PM
K Valves are made by 'RedScot' who is a member of this forum.
Try his website site at....

http://www.redscot.net

Available thru Pipers Hut in Ohio and other vendors, very well made

phyx
15-06-07, 12:00 PM
Why not just practice until you get it right? If your technique is fine, perhaps your reeds aren't set up properly and some adjustments are in order. You shouldn't have to use valves to cut off your drones...you'll learn more about your instrument, and you'll save money too. :beer:

scarhandpiper
15-06-07, 12:34 PM
Why not just practice until you get it right? If your technique is fine, perhaps your reeds aren't set up properly and some adjustments are in order. You shouldn't have to use valves to cut off your drones...you'll learn more about your instrument, and you'll save money too. :beer:

You say that like you think I haven't been practicing! I HAVE! Since November 2006!!! And I've had all kinds of assistance and advice. Still couldn't get those cut offs good enough to please the PM.

My instructor's out to make me quit playing entirely.

phyx
15-06-07, 01:26 PM
I'm not saying you haven't been practicing. All I'm saying is, practice until you get it right. I'm not saying that you're not getting it right either. Perhaps your reeds aren't set up properly and some adjustments are in order.

If your instructor is out to make you quit, perhaps it's time you look for another instructor?

If your PM wants your cut offs better, ask him/her for advice on it. Have him/her watch you play a tune and cut off, see if its your technique, or if your reeds are just too easy or something. I know I was having difficulty getting a clean cut off until it was pointed out that after cutting off, I unknowingly let my arm down again to rest gently on the bag, causing my reeds to kick back in slightly--sounding like a faint trailing drone.

My PM at the time (Scarlet) noticed it, told me to stop, and now I don't make that mistake anymore. I probably would've done everything but realize my arm was coming back to rest on the bag a bit before I figured it out. She could see my arm relaxing back into place was causing the trouble, but I couldn't...

I would ask your PM to help you if your instructor won't--then I'd find another instructor who encourages you to get better.

Bobby
15-06-07, 01:32 PM
From your last comment, I would seriously suggest that you may want to look for another teacher. Clean attack/startup and shutoffs are something they should be able to teach you quite effectively in a short period of time. November 2006 to today is a short period of time to have been learning to play the pipes and you are to be congratulated for progressing onto the pipes in such a short period of time. Please remember that it takes time to become proficient with these techniques, so patience all around will be needed.

The K-valves are a good valve- better than ash plugs in my opinion. The inventor sent me some to evaluate. I like what I see and will have them available for sale when I can find time to update our website and test them further. The only drawback I can see is that they cannot be used with the MCS2, the V3, the Ross canister components or any moisture control device that attaches to the bottom of the drone stocks.

They offer no moisture control however, which I gathered was the main part of the original question.

scarhandpiper
15-06-07, 01:39 PM
Thanks very much for your input!
Definitely getting a new instructor!

phyx
15-06-07, 02:22 PM
Good to hear. Make sure he/she encourages you, and wants to see you improve too! Also, don't forget to ask your PM for advice and to watch you strike in/cut off.

scarhandpiper
15-06-07, 04:57 PM
OK! Thanx phyx!