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View Full Version : McSorley v Brashear ... Brashear to blame?


wjjagfan
20-12-08, 01:54 AM
I moved this from another thread because it was off topic. The discussion was about whether or not Brashear deserved the stick to the head from McSorley. The start of the discussion is in the Creative Corner.

Um...Brashear egged him on. You don't start something if your not gonna back it up (especially when you're supposedly a tough guy). It wasn't the tap to the head that hurt him, it was the fact that Brashears helmet was not properly done up. Was McSorley right? No, but Brashear was as much to blame as anyone. The NHL would have acted accordingly, if they were allowed to. This had no business being brought outside the league to handle.
Its a game of emotion, and Brashear made a habit of taking the talk more often than not with smaller players. McSorley was the type of player you hated unless he was on your team, but he always back it up when challenged. the same can not be said of Brashear.
My opinion................

Here's my opinion (coach and player): A lot of taunting takes place at most levels of hockey. An intentional swipe at the head with a stick is a straight out assault with a weapon and has no place in the sport. A swipe at the head with a stick from behind is even worse because the player is defenseless against the attack.

Saying that the two fisted stick to the head (referred to as a "tap") didn't cause Brashears serious injury because his helmet's chin strap was loose is like saying intentionally pushing someone off the top of a building didn't cause their death, it was fact that they weren't wearing their fall protection properly. This was an intentional act to cause harm ... I doubt McSorley thought to himself, "I'll just take a swipe at Brashears head with my stick because I'm sure he's wearing his helmet properly and so it won't cause a serious injury." A jury didn't buy it and I doubt most hockey fans buy it either. There is no shared responsibility here for the outcome.

I agree that hockey is a game with a lot of emotion, but there is a line that you don't cross and using your stick as a weapon is definatley over that line.

I'm sure most hockey fans have seen this a million times, but for those who haven't here's the video of the "tap" to the head and the events that lead up to it. It was a simple case of McSorley taking revenge after getting beat in an earlier fight with Brashear. If Brashear received his injuries from a legal hit or even in a straight up fight, so be it, but this was a cowardly attack. Click here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbTPFo6znZo).

rpeitzsch
20-12-08, 02:15 AM
Thanks for moving this to a new topic.

:ap:
Just a friendly reminder up front to all who decide to participate in this discussion....

There's a lot of emotion around this one, so lets make sure to keep everything friendly. Now back to your regularly scheduled program....

SDowns
20-12-08, 03:20 AM
I'm always surprised when I read or hear discussions on this type of thing.

Hockey is known for these antics.

While not always believable to me, at least this seemed like a legit attack (not sports entertainment) in light of the fact that there were legal ramifications.

:fight:

jessierose
20-12-08, 05:25 AM
I hope the eight or so years that have passed since this happened have made it possible for everyone to control their emotions. Just don't get me started about the Bertuzzi/Moore incident....:jessie:

jjpiper
20-12-08, 05:37 AM
I don't believe hockey is "known for these antics" anymore than a baseball player spitting on an umpire or a basketball player kicking a photographer is a common occurance in those sports. Sometimes the media tends to emphasize these rare incidents rather than the amazing athleticism like the pass from Daymond Langkow to Todd Bertuzzi last night.

This tragic incident was truly unacceptable but I don't think he was thinking I will just wack Brashear and make him hit his head and knock him out. :fight: Just like a soccer player elbowing an opponent in the chest for position or a football player grabbing someones facemask to slow his progress.

I believe he was trying to instigate Brashear into fighting again. An appropriate action might have been a chop on the back of the leg. What he did was clearly over the line. Even if he was being continuously taunted verbally by Brashear. Also, comparing hockey to professional wrestling may be:fht: over the line as well.

That particular incident took place in 2000 (I think) and holds no relevance in the present league.

jessierose
20-12-08, 06:08 AM
Wait a minute. Soccer, baseball, and basketball don't have actual fights. The odd kick or spit or elbow in the chest aside, they are really nothing like hockey in terms of fisticuffs.

Also, let me remind you, there are entire channels devoted to brilliant athleticism. The mainstream media focuses on these rare occasions because they lead to other things like court cases, etc. If you are wanting them to talk about a pass between Langkow and Bertuzzi on the 6 o'clock news in between news of the war on terror and Paris Hilton's puppy getting stepped on, you can exhale because it isn't gonna happen. That's what ESPN is for.

I think this is a topic on which a lot of us are going to have to agree to disagree.

rpeitzsch
20-12-08, 06:13 AM
Wait a minute. Soccer, baseball, and basketball don't have actual fights. The odd kick or spit or elbow in the chest aside, they are really nothing like hockey in terms of fisticuffs.

Actually, baseball does have bench-clearing free-for-alls.

As for soccer and basketball, they might not have bench-clearing fights like baseball has and hockey from time-to-time, but they do have lots of one-on-one violence, which you could claim the McSorley / Brashear incident was. For soccer, think about Zidane head-butting Materazzi during the World Cup. It does happen. It's not right, again think about Zidane's departure from the world of soccer, but it does happen.

jessierose
20-12-08, 06:47 AM
It does happen. You're right. But not in nearly every game. And it's not allowed the way it is in hockey. I can't think of any sport other than the obvious ones (wrestling, boxing, sumo...whatever) that has fighting the way hockey does. Certainly, there aren't any other team sports that do.

rpeitzsch
20-12-08, 06:59 AM
Actually, its been cut way way back in hockey. And technically, its not allowed.

jessierose
20-12-08, 07:19 AM
Don't you get ejected from a game for fighting in any other sport?

SDowns
20-12-08, 01:57 PM
But isn't it amazing (to anyone else but me) that all those strong athletes are going at it yet nobody is taken out on a stretcher?

Here's a game I attended ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBD88Qilm80

Either the fight is simply sport entertainment or these guys couldn't fight their way out of a wet paperbag.

Actually, baseball does have bench-clearing free-for-alls.

.

Scarlet O'Hair
20-12-08, 03:21 PM
Actually there was an NHL game a few years ago when a player WAS taken out on a stretcher (can't remember if it was fight related though) anyways, the paramedics dropped him off the stretcher enroute to the ambulance! Can anyone remember this and who it was? (Mr Scarlet will tell me once he rolls out of bed)

Paul Ouellette
20-12-08, 03:31 PM
Back a few years ago...

We went to the fights...& a hockey game broke out !!

P.

jjpiper
20-12-08, 04:12 PM
Personally I think the are all overpaid. Maybe the pressure to perform gets to them and they snap. (I'm definitely not condoning bad behaviour in any sport) Can you imagine getting paid 5 million plus to play half a season like Sundin.

Scarlet O'Hair
20-12-08, 07:58 PM
Gotta remember a couple things. Their careers can be short, and I'm not certain they receive benefits (medical, optical, dental etc) While you and I start in the work force (at our careers) say at 20 years old, we have salaries, benefits and hopefully RSPs of some sort for on average 35-45 years.

Not much likelyhood of a hockey player playing until he's 55 or 65 years old. Some retire to commentating, managing, coaching etc, but some do not and rely on (hopefully) strategic financial planning, business ventures etc.

jjpiper
21-12-08, 02:12 AM
That's why they should have some good health insurance. All sports players are overpaid not just hockey making millions. But it's probably so the team owners can justify making billions and charging so much for tickets.

Bobby
21-12-08, 11:47 PM
I actually have full season tickets this year to the Ottawa Senators games.

The average NHL hockey player may only play until they're into their 40's, however at multiple millions of dollars per year, they make more in one year than you or I am ever going to make in an entire lifetime, so I don't have much sympathy for any of them lamenting the shortness of their career. They do have medical coverage as well as a pension plan. One of my neighbours growing up was a player for the Chicago Blackhawks for a number of years as well as other teams, so I have it on the best authority.
Canadian players get free medical in Canada anyway.

For that kind of cash, they should be expected to play to a very high standard, and as far as I'm concerned violence has no place in the game whatsoever. Hopefully, the days of players like Domi and other such goons are gone from the sport. I for one am glad that the league has taken a stronger stance on violence in the game, and should continue to work towards eliminating it from the game. Just think of how much less of our tax dollars would be spent on medical treatments for these guys as well as our ticket money! :bgt:

wjjagfan
22-12-08, 06:35 PM
For that kind of cash, they should be expected to play to a very high standard, and as far as I'm concerned violence has no place in the game whatsoever. Hopefully, the days of players like Domi and other such goons are gone from the sport. I for one am glad that the league has taken a stronger stance on violence in the game, and should continue to work towards eliminating it from the game.

I'll go along with that.

USA Hockey (the amature organization for hockey in the USA) is fairly strict about fighting as is the European League, Collegiate Leagues, and the Olympics.

The youth league I coach in is part of USA Hockey. Fighting is a major penalty and game misconduct. The players involved are also suspended for the next game. At the beginning of the year I hold a parent's meeting and I explain to parents that fighting may be part of professional hockey, but it is not part of our game. I explain that the league will suspend them if the fight is in a game, but if any of my players get into a fight at practice or in the locker room I'll suspend the player(s) for a game as well. The hockey coordinator for the league told me he would back me up on this if any parents complained. I've only had to suspend one player, and the parents never complained about it.

I'll admit that when I see a fight start in a professional game it peaks my interest; but I don't watch hockey for the fights and it would certainly not be a part of the game I would miss if it were banned.

Don Robertson
23-12-08, 06:27 PM
Don't you get ejected from a game for fighting in any other sport?
Fighting in baseball, football, and basketball will usually get the player fined and suspended. A bit more of a penalty than 3 minutes in the goon bin.