The Pipe Band Forum  
Hello Unregistered , welcome to the PBF!

Go Back   The Pipe Band Forum > Piping Area > Piping Maintenance, Technical Help
& Products Lab
> Bagpipe Maintenance
& Piping Technical Help

Custom Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 17-01-07, 10:18 PM   #1
phyx
thread killer
 
phyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ottawa, ON
Age: 37
Posts: 2,940
Casino cash: $3126

Country:
Thanks: 1,488
Thanked 756 Times in 529 Posts
Default Drone honking before strike in

Everyone knows the sound and the look one gets from the PM when drones honk before strike in...so...how do we prevent this?

In my particular case, if I fill my bag up to just before the honking begins, I cannot get a nice strike in, but rather some warbly drones. If my drones make noise before the strike in, I know my strike in will be good and solid, but otherwise...the drones don't get enough air to stay going well.

I have my drone reeds setup to be air efficient, and have tested each one individually for the right strength. My bag has no leaks, and my setup is air tight.

The only things I can think of that cause this are:

1. Bag is too big/takes more air than my lungs can put out to keep the drones going steady after strike in

2. I need to practice striking in over and over and over (yeah yeah I know)

3. Drone reeds are too easy for me. I don't think this is the case as I've set each one individually so they don't shut off until I'm really forcing the air out.

Hopefully your replies will help any others having this problem. Any thoughts?
__________________
I rock to piobaireachd.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
phyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-07, 03:44 PM   #2
Bobby
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,714
Casino cash: $5065

Country:
Thanks: 801
Thanked 996 Times in 664 Posts
Default

I'll take door number 2 Monty


seriously though, number 3 concerns me a bit. They should take some additional effort to shut off, but not as much as I think you are saying if I interpret it correctly. This could have something to do with the posting about chanter squeels as well.
Bobby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-07, 05:12 PM   #3
Fred Fomm
Super V.I.P.
 
Fred Fomm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: São Paulo, SP
Age: 38
Posts: 741
Casino cash: $2718

Country:
Thanks: 322
Thanked 424 Times in 235 Posts
Default

Door number 2.

1. If the bag is too large, all it takes you is an extra blow before the strike to leave it semi-filled and ready to go.

3. If the drones are too easy indeed, they will stop during the tune or even in the striking; but not sound prematurely.

A great useful tip - you can get it from your P/M - is the exact spot in the bag you should hit at the strike. I corrected many pipers in my previous band who had the same problem just by observing that they struck the bag immediately below the stocks. This way, the air goes primarily to the drone reeds and they will sound before they should.

But even more important is the way your right hand is pressing the bag. Many people get carried away by the drum rolls and punch the bag or either press it hastily. Don't. Remember that the bag should be firm enough just by blowing in, so the strike will consist of a gentle pressing, no more than that.

Good luck!

Fredgie
__________________
SP Scots


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Fred Fomm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-07, 05:18 PM   #4
phyx
thread killer
 
phyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ottawa, ON
Age: 37
Posts: 2,940
Casino cash: $3126

Country:
Thanks: 1,488
Thanked 756 Times in 529 Posts
Default

I set them up individually so that each one shuts off with additional effort--not if I power-exhale. If I blow them normally, they go, if I give extra force, they shut off. They're not set so hard that I can't shut them off, just hard enough that they don't shut off at the wrong times, and easy enough that they don't take too much air.

I was wondering if they're not too easy though since they tend to sound before strike in and before the bag is full enough for me to keep necessary air pressure to keep them sounding correctly after strike in.

I hope I'm explaining it well. I'll try a quick way:

Put air in bag, bag is just about half full, drones sound a bit, I ease off, drones stop sounding, strike-in, drones do not sound nice until I can completely fill the bag with air.

Put air in bag, bag is just about half full, drones sound a bit, strike-in anyway, drones sound nice as I can completely fill the bag with air.

This leads me to believe that the bag is either too big (medium L&M, which I thought was too big, but a small is just too small--can't keep it full of air...very weird experience that was) or my drone reeds are set so easy that they sound before the bag is full enough for a good solid strike in.

Did that make sense?

Thanks again everyone!
__________________
I rock to piobaireachd.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
phyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-07, 05:23 PM   #5
phyx
thread killer
 
phyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ottawa, ON
Age: 37
Posts: 2,940
Casino cash: $3126

Country:
Thanks: 1,488
Thanked 756 Times in 529 Posts
Default

Fred,

Thanks for the pointer. Before, when I played Frankenpipes with a Ross bag, my strike-in was flawless. It worked every single time with no problems.

With the hide bag, I'm striking in the same place as I did on the Ross--could just be a matter of where I'm pressing on the bag.

It could very well be that I haven't found the sweet spot yet. I'll keep searching...thanks again!
__________________
I rock to piobaireachd.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
phyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-07, 06:32 PM   #6
PowerBoozer007
PowerBoozer007
 
PowerBoozer007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Modesto California, previous Toronto
Posts: 0
Casino cash: $10

Country:
Thanks: 529
Thanked 979 Times in 649 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phyx View Post
Everyone knows the sound and the look one gets from the PM when drones honk before strike in...so...how do we prevent this?

Correct me if I'm wrong Phyx, but I think you are talking about the bass double toning or roaring. It's rare for tenor drones to give that much bother!

Before you change anything just try corking off the bass and see if the tenors kick in.

Concerning the bass drone, make sure the middle section is tuning at least half way down on the tuning pin. If it's tuning anywhere near the top, the drone reed will not strike in properly because there's not enough back pressure to stablize the reed due to the large bore being too long when the middle section is sitting on top of the tuning pin.
PowerBoozer007 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PowerBoozer007 For This Useful Post:
redneck (19-01-07)
Old 18-01-07, 07:22 PM   #7
phyx
thread killer
 
phyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ottawa, ON
Age: 37
Posts: 2,940
Casino cash: $3126

Country:
Thanks: 1,488
Thanked 756 Times in 529 Posts
Default

Powerboozer,

Now that you mention it, it is the bass that is more of a bother than the tenors. It is tuning just under 2 fingers off the mount, so maybe 1.5 inches off the mount. I've got a regular Ezeedrone bass.

I had heard that it's better to have the bass mid section tuning at least half-way down, but never knew why...thanks!

If I blow the bag up until the drones sound a bit, then ease off until they're quiet, then strike in, the drones do come in, just don't sound well until I get the bag fully inflated and blowing at full strength...so I guess it could be a roaring bass problem, because after I get it totally full the drones lock in nicely. If I strike in while they're sounding a bit, they lock in immediately.
__________________
I rock to piobaireachd.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
phyx is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to phyx For This Useful Post:
redneck (19-01-07)
Old 18-01-07, 07:43 PM   #8
Bobby
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,714
Casino cash: $5065

Country:
Thanks: 801
Thanked 996 Times in 664 Posts
Default

2 inches or so off the mount is a good position for the middle joint on the bass and is pretty much the area PB is talking about. The top joint should be at the hemp line or just below it. Talking about the sweet spot makes me think the same as PB, that it's a roaring bass that you are describing. Adjust as he and I have described, adjust the tuning plug on the reed (if it has one) to put it in that area, and if it still roars, make sure it's seated firmly and look at moving the bridle a bit to make it a bit stronger.

Your drones should stay silent unitl the bag is about 1/2 - 2/3 inflated. If they are sounding before then, then perhaps an adjustment is needed to make them a bit stronger. Other than that, learning and practicing technique over and over again will help you to get to know what the bag feels like and the faint hissing noise of air escaping will reach a certain loudness just before the reeds sound. Once you learn to recognize the sounds and "feel" you won't have many problems in the future with early sqwauks and squeeks from your drones.
Bobby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-07, 08:18 PM   #9
phyx
thread killer
 
phyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ottawa, ON
Age: 37
Posts: 2,940
Casino cash: $3126

Country:
Thanks: 1,488
Thanked 756 Times in 529 Posts
Default

I can adjust the Ezeedrone reed up to 2 inches...no problem. The top joint is just at the hemp line, maybe 1mm of hemp is showing, I can lower that if necessary...but my bass does sound pretty sweet as is. I'll fool around with it and try it.

The reed is very snug in there (had it fall out on Remembrance Day gig--that will NEVER happen again LOL). The drones unfortunately, do NOT stay silent at 1/2-2/3 full. Rather, the bass sounds at just under half full, and the tenors sound at half or just over half full. I'd like to get them all to stay quiet up to 2/3 full that would awesome! I'd think they are too easy but for the fact that while playing, they don't shut off at any point, unless I REALLY give them hell, then they'll shut off.

As for the hissing noise...I don't hear that at all, except from my chanter reed when I'm blowing drones only, but I do hear the air going into the bag itself.

I'll try making the bass reed a bit stronger tonight and see how it goes. I'll also adjust the tuning plug to bring the mid-section up a bit.
__________________
I rock to piobaireachd.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
phyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-07, 10:56 PM   #10
Stormy
Forum Member
 
Stormy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Paisley, Scotland
Posts: 1,673
Casino cash: $284

Country:
Thanks: 372
Thanked 1,146 Times in 539 Posts
Default

Phyx,
Assuming that there are no leaks and that all reeds - chanter & drones - are working correctly then can I suggest that it is a technique problem.

Example - You need a new bag (for whatever reason). You are striking in fine and have no problems. Everything is the same apart from the new bag and suddenly you find you cannot strike-in as you did. What has changed?.....The bag!

Even the same type of bag from the same maker will have a slight difference and the secret is to find the "sweet spot" of the bag.
Find that sweet spot and you will find your "strike-in".
Stormy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Stormy For This Useful Post:
Bobby (19-01-07), Bruce McFarland (09-06-10), phyx (19-01-07), PowerBoozer007 (19-01-07), redneck (19-01-07)
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Canning Drone Reeds Rock! joegoat General Piping Room 5 09-12-09 10:08 AM
Which are best drone reeds for Niall Pipes? Paul D Beginner's Area 15 24-05-09 03:10 PM
Drone Reeds lee General Piping Room 5 08-03-09 12:11 AM
Ezee drone Scottie100270 Products Lab 56 05-07-07 07:34 PM
FS: Walsh 3 Drone Shuttlepipes Piper_Bruce For Sale & Wanted 0 19-09-06 10:24 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.